It was definitely him, the mother stated as Annie Baker formerly Laundon. We had always thought his birthdate was 6 August 1868, but it was only slightly out, being recorded as 7 August 1869. The address of London Road Westerham, consistent with where Edward senior was living in 1871 and where the whole family resided by 1881. Why wasn’t it on the index for all these years, I had definitely checked it many, many times? I can only surmise that the recent digitisation program found it was missing from the index and corrected the error.

There were a few questions however. Ann named the father as her first husband Thomas BAKER, was he really Edwards father? Ann also used the name of Roberts as Edwards middle name – was this to suggest that her second husband Edward senior was the biological father, perhaps they had been together before 1869? Ann was still married to Thomas at the time, so did she name him as Edwards father for convention or respectability?

Where were they all in early December 1868? Based on what we can glean from the records Ann and her husband Thomas Baker were living in Westerham Kent by 1865 when their son Eldred was born. It is unclear when Thomas and Ann split up, but they are clearly living apart by 1871. Certainly, from the records it seems both Thomas and Edward were in the right location around the time of Edwards birth to be his father but which one was it?

Year	Ann Laundon b1835	Thomas Baker b1823	Edward Roberts b1841
1857	Married Thomas Baker	Married Ann Laundon
1861	Army Barracks, Hampshire	Army Barracks, Hampshire	Westerham, Kent – lodger
1865	Eldred Baker born Westerham, Kent	Westerham, Kent (children 1858-1865)
1869	Edward Roberts born London Road, Westerham, Kent	Named as father of Edward Roberts Baker
1871	Croydon, Surrey, Mrs Annie Roberts. With sons Thomas, Eldred and Edward aged 3.	Canterbury, Kent – Visitor to Barnes family. Listed as (Croydon) Army pensioner. With daughter Alma.	Westerham, Kent – lodger Lodge lane, near High Street
1878	Married Edward Roberts at Croydon. Widow, residing at Norwood.		Married Annie Baker at Croydon. Bachelor, residing at Norwood.
1881	London Road, Westerham, Kent	Died before 1880 (Marriage of Alma)	London Road, Westerham, Kent

The DNA story

I have been actively researching my mothers family since the early 2000’s and had been convinced from the records that Edward was a child of Edward Roberts senior and not Thomas Baker. Discovering the birth certificate finally in 2021 stating Thomas Baker was the father put a spanner in the works. I had researched both the lines of Thomas Baker and Edward Roberts senior. DNA has been a focus of my research since 2010, so what was it telling me?

We have many matches going back several generations confirming that Ann Laundon is our ancestor and clearly Edwards mother, but the paternal side is quite different.

In over a decade of DNA research no other matches have been found on either the Roberts or Tweed lines. At Rootstech 2022, the ‘find my relatives’ tool told me I had over 700 cousins at the event related to me on the Day line – with so many interested in genealogy surely many of them would have tested, why didn’t I have any matches? With no other matches to these ancestors at any DNA site (and we have tested at all of them) and without being about to view the segment data, I remained skeptical that the match was an indication of a true genetic connection.

Was my research wrong? Or, was it that the right people just hadn’t tested yet? Were there insufficient descendants?

• Edwards Roberts Baker b1869 only had three half siblings, all on his mothers side;
• Edwards Roberts Baker b1869 only had 2 sons;
• Edward Arthur Roberts b1893 (my grandfather, known as Ted) had 7 children and from DNA testing we have about 95% of his DNA;
• James George Roberts b1895 (my great uncle, known as Jimmy) had 3 children but only one had descendants;
• Edward Roberts senior and Thomas Baker were both one of seven children, surely there should be other descendants we should match?

For the last several years I have pondered whether Edwards father was not Thomas Baker or Edward Roberts, but perhaps someone else entirely?

A breakthrough came earlier this year when I managed to test an additional three second cousins on this line. We now had four grandchildren of James Roberts tested (the brother of my grandfather). Whilst Ted and Jimmy had the same parents they can inherit different segments of DNA from each of them due to a process called recombination. I was hopeful that Jimmy had inherited different segments to his brother that might give us more clues to the identity of their paternal grandfather. Combining the tests of all descendants we now have approximately 60% of Edward Roberts Bakers DNA – hopefully this will give us more clues for our research.

DNA Research

Over many years I have concentrated on trying to identify the origins of Mums other problematic paternal great grandfather Arthur George Courtney. I have a separate research blog for him – you can view the Research Summary here. As part of that process I have been laboriously identifying clusters and triangulated groups of DNA matches as part of the puzzle in putting the pieces back together to identify him. It was that work that helped me in also finding out more about Edward.

My mother and her brother had reasonably good sized matches with Cousin A at 50cMs and 82cMs, all three belonging to the same generation, but they only shared smaller amounts with the other testers – about 27-30cMs. This group had intrigued me for some time and I had wondered if they might fit into George’s genealogy somehow. Matches to Cousin A to the four second cousins (who are a generation more distant) were varied, one shared 90cMs, two approx 50cMs and the last only 15cMs.

• Annie Dye was born in 1843 and married John Wilkins Usher in 1870 when she was 27 years of age. She died after a long illness aged 39 and does not appear to have had any children;
• Henry Dye’s birth was registered on 31 Oct 1844 at Sundridge with a birth date of 22 Sep1844. There are no further records for him. I have concluded that Henry is actually the same person as Edmund Dye;
• Edmund Dye appears in census records stated as being born about 1845 but unlike all the other children there is no birth registration record for him. There is a baptism on 5 Jan 1845 at Sundridge for Edmund. It seems likely that his birth was probably registered as Henry and he was later baptised as Edmund, being the eldest son. Edmund died aged 36 of consumption, unmarried, with no known issue;
• George Dye was born in 1848 and died in 1860, aged 12, no issue;
• Edith Charlotte Dye was born in 1864 and was known as ‘Lottie’. She married Edward Everden and had at least 2 children;
• There is a significant gap between the birth of George and Lottie, but there do not appear to be any other children. Edmund senior died in 1888 and only four children are mentioned in his obituary. By the time of Charlottes death in 1899 her estate passed to her only surviving child Edith Charlotte Everden.

As I studied the family I suddenly realised that they lived in Westerham Kent, where Edward Roberts was born in 1869. Staring me in the face was Edmund Dye who seemed exactly the right age to be the father of Edward Roberts – 24 at that time and in the right location! Based on the known genealogy he seems likely to be the lone suspect to be Edward’s father (except perhaps for Henry?)!

Was this my new hypothesis?

Life in Westerham, Kent

There is no evidence that Edward Roberts senior ever lived with Ann and her children until some time after 1871 and maybe even as late as 1878 when they married (presumably after Thomas Baker died). Ann confuses the issue even more by calling herself Mrs Roberts in the 1871 census and giving the child his name. What had happened to cause Thomas and Ann to split? Perhaps Edward senior took pity on Ann and decided to look after her. In 1871 he was lodging in Westerham, at Lodge Lane, close to the High Street and worked in the seed trade. Later in life, he clearly took on the role of stepfather to Ann’s children and whilst they did not have any other children together they remained married until his death in 1902.

Westerham is a town and civil parish in the Sevenoaks District of Kent, England. It is located 3.4 miles east of Oxted and 6 miles west of Sevenoaks, adjacent to the Kent border with both Greater London and Surrey. The Dye family were prominent tradespeople and lived nearby at Warren Farm Sundridge. In 1861 Edmund b1791 (m Philadelphia Yowell) was listed as managing the farm of 52 acres employing 5 men and 1 boy. In the same year his son Edmund b 1817 (m Charlotte Horsnell) was noted as being a master wheelwright and smith, managing premises in the High Street at Westerham also employing five men, a boy, plus his son Edmund b1845 aged 16 was also working there as a wheelwright.

The ironmongers shop in the High Street is in very close proximity to London Road where Edward Roberts was born in 1869 and where he continued to live until about 1885. By the time Edward emigrated to Australia in 1910 he was described as having the ability to grow anything, a fine horseman and a fair blacksmith. Where did he learn these skills? Clearly his stepfather was responsible for passing on his horticultural skills, Edward had worked as a gardener when living in England and spent some time in the army where he may have learnt to ride. Living in Westerham for most of his early life, the Roberts’ must have been aquainted with the Dye family and I can’t help but wonder whether somehow young Edward may have acquired his blacksmith skills there?

The hypothesis and further testing

The DNA evidence suggests Edward Roberts is descended from a child of Edmund and Charlotte Dye, however the evidence is not overwhelming. Edmund Dye 1844-1880 seems the most likely candidate however as he didn’t have any other children, we have no descendants we can ask to undertake further testing.

Edward Roberts’ father would have been born some time before 1850, possibly earlier. Edmund Dye is the right age and in the right location. The DNA evidence is reasonable given the timeframe with two AncestryDNA clusters and currently six ‘confirmed’ triangulated groups on chromosomes 1, 4, 6 and 21. Four of these groups connect back to the Dye/Yowell couple and two to the Hodson/Fox couple. Hopefully over time more evidence will emerge.

I was lucky enough to be able to obtain photographs of the Dye’s to compare to my family. The top row are our potential Dye ancestors and the bottom row my family, three photos of Edward Roberts b1869 and the last two his sons, Edward (Ted my grandfather) and his younger brother James (Jimmy). In my opinion, there seems to be a strong family resemblance – in particular the resemblance between Lottie and Jimmy seems noteworthy.

So are we safe in concluding that this our line? It seems probable, but I would like more genetic evidence. I’d probably say it is now my current working hypothesis.

I’d appreciate your thoughts!

Y-DNA and a possible Danish connection?

Y-DNA testing could help to confirm that our male line is the same as this Dye family. I have approached many descendants of the Dye family but have not yet identified anyone suitable and willing to test. If you are a male descendant of Edmund Dye b1791 (m Philadelphia Yowell) carrying the Dye surname, please contact me if you are willing to test to help us to confirm/refute our hypothesis.

Two descendants of Edward Roberts Baker have already undertaken Y-DNA testing but to date there are no matches via STR testing and only one Big-Y match, with the Big-Y match carrying the surname of Taylor. This Taylor line extends to colonial times in the US but does eventually get back to Suffolk in England by the 1600’s. Big Y testing has identified our haplogroup to be R-BY23391 (R-BY160942 in the block tree).

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Do you know more about the families mentioned in this post? If you are connected to any of them (particularly if you have DNA tested, or are willing to test) I would love to hear from you. It’s the power of DNA that can help us breakthrough our brick walls!

As always, please do not hesitate to contact me via this blog or by private message via Ancestry, Wikitree or Facebook.

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Featured Image: Westerham c1831, W.H. Ireland’s View of Kent.